Prof. David Cesarani replies to Hoffman

Prof. David Cesarani has replied to yesterday’s blog, as follows:

Dear Michael Hoffman,

I am not sure what your are referring to in the Daily Telegraph, but if you listen carefully to what I said on 'Moral Maze' you will hear that I did not recommend repression. I said that to policy makers in Whitehall and the White House stability is most important and the most predictable way to accomplish that in the short term is a Tiananmen Sq style solution. So it might appeal to some of them. I specifically said that I was glad that I was not forced to make such a decision. I was asked onto the programme partly to give a historical perspective and wanted to explain that (a) democratic revolutions do not always have benign, even democratic outcomes (b) the western powers don't usually care which way it goes as long as they can continue to do business - so it is wise to be wary of anything US or British or EU leaders say.

By the way, you may know that the 'lessons of the Holocaust' do not apply to the Palestinians but as someone who has been involved with the Israeli peace movement since 1982, I think they do.

Yours sincerely,
David Cesarani

(End quote)

The Daily Telegraph report concerning Cesarani’s statement is here.

Prof. Cesarani is referring to his appearance on the 45 minute "Moral Maze" BBC radio program of Feb. 2, which can be heard online here (he is the second “witness” on the program). He compares, for example, Christian Russia very unfavorably with Bibi Netanyahu’s “Israel,”and is then asked if it would be the right thing to crush the Egyptian opposition.

He replied, "If you were to take the pragmtaic, wholly expedient view of Whitehall or the White House,  a Tiananmen Square style outcome would be desirable.”

When the interviewer expressed shock at Cesarani’s statement, Prof. Cesarani proceeds to say that "The West is no longer weeping that much over Tiananmen Square because we’re doing a lot of business with China. So, many business interests would say, quietly, that, perhaps, well the way in which the Chinese managed their transition was preferable.”

These are horrible, callous sentiments expressed by a “Holocaust human rights" activist. On the Contrary rejects Prof. Cesarani’s apologia, which amounts to pilpul. Moreover, if the “lessons of the Holocaust” apply to the Palestinians, in his view, how can he fail to include the Israeli state in the list of thug nations (allegedly like Russia) which he denominates?

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“Holocaust” historian says massacre of Egyptian protestors is desirable

A “Holocaust” historian and former Israeli kibbutznik, "Professor David Cesarani, floated the idea of there being a Tiananmen Square-style massacre in Egypt as a way of quelling potential post-Mubarak anarchy.

"And there has been no outrage. No Twitterstorm, no blog-based apoplexy, no heated radio phone-ins. Perhaps talking about the massacre of Egyptians is normal these days.

"Professor Cesarani was asked by Michael Portillo about the 'moral dilemma' of how to deal with what comes after Mubarak. What if it’s worse than Mubarak? Should it be crushed?

"Professor Cesarani said that if one takes the 'wholly pragmatic view,’ then 'the outcome of a Tiananmen Square-style crackdown is desirable and is predictable.' Because, he said, 'if you allow this popular democratic movement to run on unchecked, you cannot predict what’s going to happen. But you can predict probably that after a short, sharp, massive clampdown at huge human cost, there will be a sullen stability.'

"Portillo was startled. 'Quite a lot of people would be quite shocked to hear what you said – that a Tiananmen-style outcome would be desirable.'

"Cesarani responded that, ‘The West is no longer weeping that much over Tiananmen Square because we’re doing a lot of business with China. So, many business interests would say, quietly, that, perhaps, well the way in which the Chinese managed their transition was preferable.’

"Another panellist, Matthew Taylor, former adviser to Tony Blair and now chief executive of the Royal Society of Arts, later described Cesarani’s comments on Tiananmen Square as 'incredibly brave' and said: 'In a way, I can see his argument.”

—Brendan O’Neill

David Cesarani is professor of history at Royal Holloway, University of London, England. He advised the British government office responsible for “Holocaust" memorial day and was a member of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office delegation to the Intergovernmental Taskforce for "International Cooperation on Holocaust Education, Remembrance and Research.” He is the editor of The Final Solution: Origins and Implementation (1994) and Bystanders to the Holocaust: A Re-evaluation (2002) and the author of Justice Delayed: How Britain Became a Refuge for Nazi War Criminals (1992).

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